Driver education

[Nitro]

Hey Nitro its not all bad out there on the roads but you're right it can be dangerous.

Sorry Emesde, but I find that patronising, it feels as if your talking down to me and I don't like it, if i'm old enough to drive i'm old enough to make my own decisions about driving courses or books or anything else.

Anyway back to the discussion.

To me it just seems traveling at higher speeds you double the risks of serious injury if anything was to go wrong, I don't want to be responsible if I ever drove at 100mph, lost control and perhaps crashed into a car with a family etc, I just couldn't live with that (if I lived that is).

Sort of backtracking, but i'll agree there are some parts of the mountain (namely the mountain mile and the Creg as you've said Tree) that are more suited to higher speeds, simply because you can see if there is any other cars coming, If there wasn't any other traffic then sure drive at 100mph+ its basically at your own risk, but not when there is other road users in the opposite direction, because that would just be dangerous IMO.

I still find 140mph excessive though, its just the "what could happen" factor, if you crash at 140mph on the Creg, I would expect to be killed from the impact, that decision of traveling that fast is one hell of a decision to make, its like wanting to sign your life away, because one day something is bound to happen and as much as I like to live life to the full, I'm not going to end it because of a 5 second thrill either.

I could cross a road with my eyes closed for 5 years, be deemed a "good road crosser" and not get ran over, doesn't mean it won't happen though.

[Nitro]

lol 100mph on manx roads is just insane?

Most cars can reach 100mph easily nowadays. But keep in mind they can stop from 100mph even quicker.

Have you ever had to do an emergancy stop at 100mph?, I bet its not as quick or as easy as some might think, perhaps some people could try it at Jurby airfield? or would that be dangerous.........

To brake safely at 100mph I reckon you'd need the reactions of a fighter pilot, because the brakes would probably lock up even if its for a spil second while the ABS gets its bearings and and then you'd have little/no control over the steering, plus doing an emergancy stop while going around a corner (like you'd need to on the mountain) and you'd run the risk of rolling the car. We all get taught how to do an emergancy stop when learning at 30mph, its all very easy, very simple, but at 100mph you'd have to speed up the reaction times enormously!

if the situation doesn't allow you to do 100+ and/or your not in the right frame of mind, don't do it. Otherwise there's no problem here with speed, just be aware of other road users and hazards.

I don't personally feel comfortable doing 100mph on a public road, it feels (and I know it is) beyond my own control, its a great thrill all the same, but Its a horrible feeling not properly being in control (I now hate being a passenger to!.

Perhaps with the right car, the right weight in the steering (instead of getting stupidly light) and a good suspension set-up my opinion would change, but is that me feeling comfortable with my own driving or just relying on the gadgets in the car to make me safe doing those speeds?

[Insane]

Nitro,

You have some very good points there.

To drive at those speeds in a controlled manner does take some practice and obviously the right tools. By the sounds of things your car isn't set up for higher speed trips.

Granted, to stop and even slow safely and quickly from 100+ you can't be shy with the brakes - however you got to be smooth with the progression of applying the brakes and obviously steering input.

Nearly everything taught for the driving test is irrelevant for the higher speed runs.

BTW - Road Craft's a good book if that's your thing.

[Nitro]

To drive at those speeds in a controlled manner does take some practice and obviously the right tools. By the sounds of things your car isn't set up for higher speed trips.

I'll try another way, if you heard someone crashed on the mountain at 100mph and was seriously injured, would you're first reaction be to say "that was to fast" or "he/she must've inexperienced with high speed driving"?

I don't know who has or hasn't been trained for high speed driving, but in an advanced IAM driving course, would they/do they let you drive at 100+mph?, if they don't I think its for a reason......

Nearly everything taught for the driving test is irrelevant for the higher speed runs.

So should high speed driving be taught then?, at least if your going to let people drive at high speeds let them do it as safely as possible, I'd guesstimate that 90% of people who pass their test, the first thing they do is go for a "blast" which normally means going way over 50mph, its an issue that should be addressed...

i wont go into detail about that day i came across traffic lights at the 33rd at 130mph.

BTW - Road Craft's a good book if that's your thing.

What happened then, I presume you had just about enough of tarmac to brake safely without performing an all out emergancy stop? (unlike for instance someones car breaking down around a blind corner and taking up your side of the road?....)

I'll have a look at that book, looks a very good read, cheers.

[emesde]

Sorry Emesde, but I find that patronising, it feels as if your talking down to me and I don't like it, if i'm old enough to drive i'm old enough to make my own decisions about driving courses or books or anything else.

I 'm sorry you found these remarks patronising Nitro and that was not intended. As someone who has recently passed his test -I assume you have passed it --I thought you may not be aware that there are people out there who do drive safely and make good progress and that everone who drives quickly is not necessarily unsafe. There are courses that improve driving standards for Road driving and I was just raising the awareness of these. The book I recommended is one I have recently read and gained from but as you say you are old enough to make your own decisions ,although I didn't know you already knew of this book. If its any help Road Craft is the police drivers Handbook and is excellent.

[Nitro]

I thought you may not be aware that there are people out there who do drive safely and make good progress and that everone who drives quickly is not necessarily unsafe.

Yes, perhaps i've never noticed a good driver on the roads, perhaps years of observation as a passenger are also useless, perhaps i've never seen the results of high speed driving, (IE a fatality) perhaps all of my family are also crap drivers and never drive fast.

Or perhaps i'm not thick and was merely commenting on the few drivers that I have seen/heard in what I thought is driving dangerously, my opinion that 140mph is dangerous will remain and I can't see that ever changing. I find you even more patronising Emesde now. having an opinion is fine, but you still talk down to me like i'm 5 years old, if you don't like my opinion by all means disagree with it, but refrain from treating me like a prat.

I don't want to descend this into a personal attack, but please refrain from mentioning my age, my driving status or my abilities, they do not affect how I present my opinion at all and it doesn't affect my driving ability either, I don't see how anyones age or driving experience matters in this type of discussion, driving for 40 years doesn't necessarily make you a brilliant driver, more over it doesn't make you any better than me either.

[tree]

this is also the problem with forums... you cant perceive the manner in which a person has posted.

emesde is a genuinely ncie guy and he certainly doesnt have a superiority complex. i can see from your point of view and how you have interpereted it.

age and driving experience arnt sole contributors to making you a better driver but they often do help. experience comes with age and the more our on the roads the more you learn. im not saying its true that a 50 year old woman is better than you. often the reverse. (sorry ladies)
Dont know how old you are but im only 20, and theres plenty younger than me on the site. lets work together

you both infact share a common goal to make the roads safer.

[Pugguy]

On the topic of speed...
I cant see hoe you can say that driving over 100mph IS dangerous, Yes you are increasign the 'potention' danger, But unless something goes worng- it can still be perfectly safe.
Planes flying at 400mph have a huge potential danger if something goes wrong- but does this mean we should stop them 'just in case' ?

I think you are confusing 'actual danger' with 'potential' danger.

[Nitro]

I think you are confusing 'actual danger' with 'potential' danger.

Correct, but if thats the case, surely everything is a "potential" danger, A drunk driver is potentially dangerous, someone talking on their mobile and driving is potentially dangerous, someone crossing the road with their eyes shut is a potential danger, driving is always a potential danger whether driving at 5mph or 150mph.

Planes are different though, they normally have a totally clear flight path and there isn't that many planes in the ski compared to cars. I'm talking about the drivers that do 100mph+ with traffic in the opposite direction, thats just asking for a potential accident!

[Nitro]

this is also the problem with forums... you cant perceive the manner in which a person has posted.

emesde is a genuinely ncie guy and he certainly doesnt have a superiority complex. i can see from your point of view and how you have interpereted it.

Perhaps he was trying to help, but I saw it as comments on me as a person rather than comments on my driving opinion.